Hallo !

[Eisprinzessin]

I don't know about Germany, but I do know you have a better economy than us anyway. When you became a free nation you had a better start. I mean, only half of your country belonged to USSR, while the other had a balanced economy thanks to the Allied Forces. We, on the other hand, were completely under communism's rule, and so when we were free we had to start from the very beginning. Sure, the UE did help, but we still are behind when it comes to the West Europe. And we have to be of interest to them, because without their help we can't catch up with them. So it's vital for us to keep the relationships and under no account let them forget us. Or we'll plummet down.

That’s true communism destroyed the eastern European economy.
And when it comes to the part of Germany which was under communism, after the fall of the Berlin wall, West Germany did everything to make their economy work again.
And they invested much into our eastern part, so that East Germany could rehabilitate.
Today the eastern German states have an economy which is nearly as good as the western ones. :happypoland:
Also some Eastern states like Brandenburg for example, don’t have much or any debts while North- Rhine Westphalia has a lot of debts.
The Ruhr-Area , Hamburg and Berlin are some parts with the most debts in our country.
And Hamburg and the Ruhr-Area are western and Berlin was half, half.

I understand that it’s important for Poland to have good relations to the €uro countries.
But this doesn’t make the €uro a good currency for your country or anyone else.

Well, I still have the hope that the political direction will change in my country and that we will get realistic politicians who will get us out of the €uro. ( Not on this elections of course. The evil cow Merkel will win again, not that the other huge parties are better, they are as evil as her.)
If this is going on like that, I think some countries will leave the €uro zone as long as their economies aren’t destroyed by the crisis.
I’m thinking about Finland, the Netherlands and Austria. I don’t think they will pay other countries debts ever and ever again.
The only government which doesn’t mind continuing like that is our German, suicidal one.
But if this will come to affect the German people massively in a truly bad way, this will cause some riots and trouble.
Cause the Germans will wake up (too late) and get angry then.

[Weronikus]

That’s true communism destroyed the eastern European economy.
And when it comes to the part of Germany which was under communism, after the fall of the Berlin wall, West Germany did everything to make their economy work again.
And they invested much into our eastern part, so that East Germany could rehabilitate.

Exactly. So, in a way, you had a better start, like I said before.

Today the eastern German states have an economy which is nearly as good as the western ones.
Also some Eastern states like Brandenburg for example, don’t have much or any debts while North- Rhine Westphalia has a lot of debts.
The Ruhr-Area , Hamburg and Berlin are some parts with the most debts in our country.
And Hamburg and the Ruhr-Area are western and Berlin was half, half.

That makes sense. Like, logical sense. Since you had to pay a lot to get Eastern Germany stablized.
I know that when we were free from the communism, we were extremely poor. We also had a lot of goods belonging to us - like goods under the ground. I'm not sure what exactly... some oil or something. Definitely coal. We had to sell all the terrains filled with the coal and other stuff to get as much money as possible to rebuild our nation again. Of course, we had to borrow loads of cash from America. Apparently we finally paid the debt last year... Or 2 years ago? I'm not sure. Anyway, the nation itself borrowed lots of money, but cities did so as well. Cracow is still very indebted - probably the most indebted city in Poland. Even though war didn't cause a lot of damage in the city, we had a lot of changes to do - for example, rebuild the Battle under Grundelwald statue which the Nazis destroyed.
And now, instead on focusing on paying off the debt, Cracow has to borrow even more money for roads and stuff. I mean, sure, it's important. But the timing is awful - the debt just keeps getting bigger and bigger.

I understand that it’s important for Poland to have good relations to the €uro countries.
But this doesn’t make the €uro a good currency for your country or anyone else.

We can't afford to think like that. Unless countries like France (the two countries we think of as best buds - why France, I have no idea. THey did nearly nothing for us and yet we treat them as BFF's.) leave the Euro, we have to get it. Great Britian isn't all that enthusiastic to keep the relations with us until it sees we're worthy of their time. (Apparently the fact that we are it's cheap workers isn't enough...)

Well, I still have the hope that the political direction will change in my country and that we will get realistic politicians who will get us out of the €uro. ( Not on this elections of course. The evil cow Merkel will win again, not that the other huge parties are better, they are as evil as her.)

I hope that happens Maybe Poland will rethink joining the Euro and stay with our current currency if such an important nation as Germany leaves the Euro. So I hope you do for both us and you!

If this is going on like that, I think some countries will leave the €uro zone as long as their economies aren’t destroyed by the crisis.
I’m thinking about Finland, the Netherlands and Austria. I don’t think they will pay other countries debts ever and ever again.

Finland and Netherlands? I didn't know they are thinknig of leaving. Well, now that I think of it, I didn't think Austria's leaving either xD.
By the way, the talk of the crisis and stuff made me wonder: How's Switzerland? Is it in the crisis as well or are they steadily climbing upwards? I know they don't have Euro, but the crisis touched almost every naton in Europe... didn't it?

The only government which doesn’t mind continuing like that is our German, suicidal one.
But if this will come to affect the German people massively in a truly bad way, this will cause some riots and trouble.
Cause the Germans will wake up (too late) and get angry then.

Then I suggest you turn on the alarm clocks, since it's time Germans took the current situation into their own hands!

[Eisprinzessin]

That makes sense. Like, logical sense. Since you had to pay a lot to get Eastern Germany stablized.

Stabilizing eastern Germany isn’t the main reason for the debts of these parts of west Germany.
It can be described as the tip of the iceberg, but the money the west gave the east isn’t the cause.^^
Western Germany has debts cause the governments of the states were and still are throwing the money out of their windows.
They built new things, wanted everything new and it had to be better, bigger and then even better and bigger as the one they already made better. (they thought they made it better. In fact they didn’t).
They bought useless stuff nobody needs, built stuff which is still not really used just cause it looks impressive and is totally “cool” and high tech.
When it comes to the Ruhr-Area, one of our hugest parts of industry, which had its focus on mining, they closed all the mines and are buying the coal from China now instead, because it’s cheaper.
But they didn’t get that this was a main pier of the Ruhr-Areas economy. They destroyed a huge part of the German economy AND jobs for the people.
Plus all those parts (North Rhine-Westphalia - including the Ruhr-Area, Hamburg and Berlin) are ruled by the most evil and stupid parties – The SPD (social democrats) and the root of evil “Die Grünen”. All they can is making more and more debts and ruining everything and hating their own People and everything German.
To say it short - these parts are under the political colours RED or RED & GREEN.

Of course, we had to borrow loads of cash from America.

Germany got the help of the USA after WWII to rebuild everything, because there was nearly nothing left here.
And I’m truly thankful for this. (Even if they did it cause of the cold war.)
My American friend said to me “I think it’s impressive how the Germans rebuilt your country after the war this fast.” And I said. “Ja, it is, they did everything to make everything work again. And you know that it was your country which helped us a lot with money. Without the help it wouldn’t have gone this fast.”

We can't afford to think like that. Unless countries like France (the two countries we think of as best buds - why France, I have no idea. THey did nearly nothing for us and yet we treat them as BFF's.) leave the Euro

France xD
They won’t ever leave the €uro. When they keep on doing what they do, they will be some of the next ones which are financed by Germany and the northern €uro countries. :yaygermany:

Finland and Netherlands? I didn't know they are thinknig of leaving. Well, now that I think of it, I didn't think Austria's leaving either xD.
By the way, the talk of the crisis and stuff made me wonder: How's Switzerland? Is it in the crisis as well or are they steadily climbing upwards? I know they don't have Euro, but the crisis touched almost every naton in Europe... didn't it?

Finland already thought about leaving the €uro. Some finish politicians wanted to do that.
No joke I read and heard this in the news ! (A half year ago or something)
Obviously they didn’t made their “threat” come true.
But that’s why I think they will leave if it is going on like this and if the end of the tunnel won't come to see.
Some politicians in the Netherlands are thinking about it as well. If this party grows (what I wish for our neighbours cause it's a good party), the Dutch will be out of the €uro sooner or later.

And as for the Swiss, I don't have any concret informations. I think their economy is still fine and not seriously affected. But I don't know .

Then I suggest you turn on the alarm clocks, since it's time Germans took the current situation into their own hands!

I’m always trying to wake the people up and tell them about what they are trying to ignore and to inform them about what's going on. (So some of us Germans are playing alarm clocks xD )
I’ve already succeeded in some cases :happypoland:

[Weronikus]

Stabilizing eastern Germany isn’t the main reason for the debts of these parts of west Germany.

I see. Thanks for clearing that up

Western Germany has debts cause the governments of the states were and still are throwing the money out of their windows.

Seems they're doing what is common for many cities and countries... You know, dad once told me that people tend to spend money carelessly if it's not their own, private money. I think this is what's happening here. Not really caring about the effect, they try to make things better, while they're making it worse or not doing anything at all. While if they thought things through well they could do a lot of good.

Germany got the help of the USA after WWII to rebuild everything, because there was nearly nothing left here.
And I’m truly thankful for this. (Even if they did it cause of the cold war.)

Yeah, the USA was amazing with that. Even if they didn't do it because of their good heart, but to stabilize the economy in Europe and be able to trade with Europe again. Everything always turns around money... xD

France xD

It's stupid and hilarious, isn't it?
And when I say nothing, I mean NOTHING. We remember them as the great friends since Bonaparte's time, when he gave us a taste of freedom again, and immediately tagged France as "reliable and good friends". Thing is, the moment ol' Bonnie was out of the picture France totally changed it's image. During the wars, between and after Great Britian pulled France along to help us out, and would blackmail France if they weren't keen on helping. Even after FRance agreed to help they didn't do anything helpful - just before WWII Great Britian signed a document with Poland saying they'd help if the Nazis attacked. It pulled France in as well. Both didn't do anything, for the day before WWII started they secretly agreed not to help (I'm still amazed we trust them whole-heartedly). Of course, we didn't know it; while Grest Britian made up some sweet words on why it couldn't come and help, France pretendded to help by sending a few hundred thousand soldiers towards us, make them stop about 100 km before the actual battles, do a bit of shooting if something actually did happen, and then return.
And here we are saying how great they were. I'm like: "seriously?" -.-

And as for the Swiss, I don't have any concret informations. I think their economy is still fine and not seriously affected. But I don't know .

That's pretty much what I thought... Like, since they're the banking nation and so on. They know what to do to stay out of the crisis .

I’m always trying to wake the people up and tell them about what they are trying to ignore and to inform them about what's going on. (So some of us Germans are playing alarm clocks xD )
I’ve already succeeded in some cases

Good for you!

[Dia-Owl]

Hello and welcome, Eisprinzessin!
I am Dia-Owl, the second admin of the forum.
If you have any questions and concerns, feel free to contact me privately, or post them in the "Questions" branch of the forum.

Have fun and happy roleplaying!

[Eisprinzessin]

Seems they're doing what is common for many cities and countries... You know, dad once told me that people tend to spend money carelessly if it's not their own, private money. I think this is what's happening here. Not really caring about the effect, they try to make things better, while they're making it worse or not doing anything at all. While if they thought things through well they could do a lot of good.

That’s exactly what they are doing ! :angryromano:

Yeah, the USA was amazing with that. Even if they didn't do it because of their good heart

Ja, the USA did a lot of good things and for me it doesn’t matter why they did good things.
What they did was good so it’s fine.
They also were good and fair winners what I always liked about the US.
(Of course the USA did bad things as well but every country did.)
I once had a discussion about the USA with my patriotic American friend and he told me “Many people and whole nations hate my Country.”
And I said “I know but that’s quite ignorant. I really like the USA.”

We remember them as the great friends since Bonaparte's time

My country was one which fought Napoleon together with the Austrians and the Russians.
After Napoleon was defeated and kicked out, my country was a part of the new formed Holy Alliance between Prussia, Russia and Austria.
Just like Great Britain we were rivals of France.
In the 19th and the beginning of the 20th century France, Germany and Great Britain were rivals. [Until the end of WWI. After WWI Germany was poor, the people had nothing to eat, no jobs, had to give everything to the UK and France, wasn't allowed to have an army, lost land, was totally humiliated by the Treaty of Versailles and so on. ]
After WWII France and Germany became friends and now the German French friendship is good I would say.

As from what you wrote to me about how the relationship between France and Poland was, I don’t understand why some people in your country picture them as your best friends.
It doesn’t really seem like the French were loyal friends to you at all.

Both didn't do anything, for the day before WWII started they secretly agreed not to help (I'm still amazed we trust them whole-heartedly). Of course, we didn't know it; while Grest Britian made up some sweet words on why it couldn't come and help, France pretendded to help by sending a few hundred thousand soldiers towards us, make them stop about 100 km before the actual battles, do a bit of shooting if something actually did happen, and then return.

The French didn’t even really fought to defend their own country in WWII.
They just surrendered ! :dotdotjapan:
Sorry but it really was kinda like that.
The ones which really did something in France was the Resistance
But the French army ... not really.
The US and the UK freed them.

That's pretty much what I thought... Like, since they're the banking nation and so on. They know what to do to stay out of the crisis .

Ja the Swiss know how to keep their economy work.
That’s why they are such a rich country.
And they also know how to get the people from other countries to bring their money to Swiss Banks, for example people from Germany :yaygermany:

@Dia-Owl

Thanks for the nice welcoming

[Weronikus]

They also were good and fair winners what I always liked about the US.

Well, yeah, I'm not saying I don't like them, just that in politics there's no space for goodness for the sake of being good . I really am grateful to them for helping us out.
Even though I respect the US, and feel grateful, and, yeah, ok, like it a bit, I can't say I'd ever want to live there. It's... too much, you know? Like, too busy, too chaotic... No, I'd much rather my favorite country - Oz. xD

As from what you wrote to me about how the relationship between France and Poland was, I don’t understand why some people in your country picture them as your best friends.
It doesn’t really seem like the French were loyal friends to you at all.

To be truthful, I simply repeated my history teacher's words. But by the way he presented it... I was lost for words.
On the other hand, he also explained why that happened; Poland has been on a lost position from the moment Germany became evil-like, because then we were surrounded - on one side by the USSR, on the other by Germany[the past one, of course. Nowadays I like Germany a lot ]. And we didn't really stand a chance without allies - so without another way out, we had to trust others wholeheartedly - which others used for their own good.

The French didn’t even really fought to defend their own country in WWII.
They just surrendered !

Really? Seems I got some facts wrong xD.

Ja the Swiss know how to keep their economy work.
That’s why they are such a rich country.

That, and the fact that they don't spend money on things they don't need .

[Eisprinzessin]

I can't say I'd ever want to live there

I wouldn’t like to live there too to be honest ^^

Like, too busy, too chaotic...

Well people in my country are always busy as well. (At least in the cities)
So I could live with that.
But chaos .... no, I’m definitely not the type for chaos. I need some structure and system in the place where I am.
I also have systems for doing things and for my room and everything
So a chaotic place wouldn’t be the right place for me.
[Just to mention it, it’s not chaotic everywhere in the US. But cities like New York are.]

Poland has been on a lost position from the moment Germany became evil-like, because then we were surrounded - on one side by the USSR, on the other by Germany[the past one, of course. Nowadays I like Germany a lot ].

I know
Russia and Germany weren’t good neighbours to Poland in the past. *sigh* (Not only in the time of WWII) :cryingspain:

And we didn't really stand a chance without allies - so without another way out, we had to trust others wholeheartedly

Ja, I understand and it’s a shame that the UK and France, didn’t help.
Maybe if they would have helped, they could have stopped the Wehrmacht from occupying Poland and while doing this detaining the Axis (especially the third Reich) from starting a war with the whole world. But they didn’t help ....
I also think that Poland was really strong and they did everything to protect their country.
Someone once said “Poland was weak in WWII look how fast they had to surrender.”
I told that this isn’t true. I think Poland was one of the strongest.
I mean the third Reich had upgraded their army, had modern weapons, tanks and all this in a mass at that time, also had many soldiers.
While Poland hadn’t at this time but they were brave and did everything and tried to stop the Wehrmacht.
My history teacher once told us, that some polish men also fought on horses against the German tanks.
That’s really brave !

Really? Seems I got some facts wrong xD.

Of course the French acted a bit but ... you can’t say they did everything and fought for their country with the whole heart. They didn't do much to defend themselves.
That’s why all these jokes about this exist:
„Q: How many Frenchmen does it take to defend Paris?
A: Nobody knows, it's never been tried.“

“Q: What is the first thing the French teach their kids in school ?
A: How to say “We surrender” in German .”

„Q: Why did the Statuer of Liberty take karate?
A: She wanted to be the first French person to be able to defend herself!“

„Q: what can the Frenchmen do in 5 minutes?
A: Surrender twice.”

And nein, these jokes DON’T have their roots in Germany.
I think most were created by the Americans but I don’t know.


But like I said before La Resistance did a lot more and they REALLY fought !

Besides I like the French too. Germany and France have a good friendship nowadays ^^ :happypoland:

[Weronikus]

I also have systems for doing things and for my room and everything

Haha, the German stereotype .
Seems stereotypes actually do exist xD.

Maybe if they would have helped, they could have stopped the Wehrmacht from occupying Poland and while doing this detaining the Axis (especially the third Reich) from starting a war with the whole world.

You know, the best thing is that the Allies, which have stripped Germany of everything after WWI, didn't take action when they noticed it was starting to make the armies and such. But Poland was alarmed. Two times Piłsudzki sugested to the British prime minister to check things out, and he simply answsered: "Relax. It's all fine."

Someone once said “Poland was weak in WWII look how fast they had to surrender.”

Poland never surrendered!
People say that happened because our heads of the country had to escape Poland, or otherwise they'd be captured, and therefore probably murdered. And then Poland wouldn't stand a single chance.
The moment our heads escaped, USSR said that "Poor Poland's heads ran away from fear, so as a good friend we will take care of the nation".
And so they entered and started attacking us too.
But the government never lost interest in us. They continued to serve our nation first from Paris, and after France surrendered - London. They told the officers here what to do.
So yeah, Poland was taken over, but no one ever said a single word about surrendering. We simply took our fight underground.

[Eisprinzessin]

Seems stereotypes actually do exist xD.

Well, some stereotypes can be true. xD
But the problem with stereotypes is, that they are generalizing.
And it’s not like every German is like this or anything.

You know, the best thing is that the Allies, which have stripped Germany of everything after WWI, didn't take action when they noticed it was starting to make the armies and such. But Poland was alarmed. Two times Piłsudzki sugested to the British prime minister to check things out, and he simply answsered: "Relax. It's all fine."

When Hitler wanted to conquer Czechia, he told the British he would just want to have the land in Czechia and he wouldn’t start a war if he would get it.
They believed it .... I never understood why they believed it and let him act.
So he got Czechia without really fighting.

You know, the best thing is that the Allies, which have stripped Germany of everything after WWI, didn't take action when they noticed it was starting to make the armies

Germany wasn’t even allowed to have an army (what was part of the humiliation after WWI and written in the Treaty of Versailles.) The winners of WWI were just watching how they broke the Treaty of Versailles. ...
The Nazis broke everything written in the Treaty of Versailles, that was one reason for the Germans to vote for them. Cause they said – “We’re not gonna watch how they humiliate you we will make you strong and bring glory back. “The poor German people believed this ...
The Nazis also said – “We give you jobs and you will have enough food again.” The German people also believed that and this were the reasons why they voted for them.
(He really gave them jobs .... in armament industry and as soldiers. )
But those of the Germans who voted for the Nazis and knew that Hitler wanted war and killing people cause of their religion, thought – “that’s only propaganda he won’t do that, it’s too insane he can’t be serious. But he will give us jobs and we will have food again. “
That’s how he got 43% of the German votes. He never got more by the way. The Nazis played tricks to get all the power and make Hitler the only Leader. It wasn’t the choice of the people.

Besides if the winners after WWI wouldn't have humiliated Germany like this and wouldn't have made the Treaty of Versailles and take everything away from the Germans, WWII would have never taken place in history.
Cause no one would have even listened to a psycho like Hitler.
The Treaty of Versailles was a really really wrong and devastating decision.

So yeah, Poland was taken over, but no one ever said a single word about surrendering. We simply took our fight Underground

Like I said I told this person it’s not true.
The Polish fought and they didn’t give up and did everything for their country.
They had real pride and were truly brave !
All of these facts make Poland one of the strongest countries in WWII. (My opinion)



Do you know the series “Allo ! Allo! “ by the way `?
It’s a British comedy series playing in the time of WWII in France. :happypoland:
The characters are really funny and non of them are serious.
The main character is a French owner of a restaurant and then there are a lot of funny other characters.
Like British Pilots who have to hide and get back to the UK, a German colonel who’s keeping some paintings and other expensive stuff and he isn’t allowed to of course. Also a gay lieutenant, a stupid Gestapo man who's searching for the paintings the colonel has taken away and a woman of la résistance and a lot more.
I really like the series it’s hilarious. :happyaustralia: